Most desis who come to US for graduate studies, face or ask this question umpteen number of times. Often times, the answer is "3-4 years of work and am going back home. I have no plans of settling in this country". The typical response to this is always a sarcastic, "Yah right. I believe you"....And I don't fault anyone who comes up with this response, cause as of today, I know only 1 friend who graduated and took up an offer in India willingly.
Recently, I had a discussion with my boss about different cities in this country. I remarked, "Why would someone live in a frigid lifeless place like Billings, MT when there exists a place like Los Angeles, where the weather stays 75F/25C throughout the year and there is so much natural beauty". His reply was a classic, " You are different, you live 10,000 miles away from your home and hence you don't care. I live in LA, because I was born here. If I were born in wilderness in Fargo, ND, I would live most of my life there. Place is not as important as people".
Barring a very few, most desis come to US due to lure of the greens, peer pressure or simply a "better" standard of living. I said few, cause I personally know people who are here purely to pursue their passion in their field of interest/study. For the rest, it definitely seems like a selfish move. Many complain that "I hate the US culture", "I don't want my kids to grow here", "....there is a total lack of family values", "....the people here are superficial, hypocrites, rasicst..". I disagree on all counts. I come from a very conservative Iyer family, but that has not prevented me from doing the forbidden - eat anything that moves, and drink alcohol as strong as 180 Proof or go to clubs. I do, however, respect my elders and try to be honest in my deeds to others. On the other hand, I have seen some of my uncle/aunt's kids being born and brought up in US exercise more restraint than me and having a much better understanding of hindu culture, art etc than me. It's a shame, But I am pretty sure that this applies to a lot of my friends too !
People keep whining as they rake in dollar after dollar, and visit their homeland once in 2 or more years, giving a lame excuse that it cost 1000$ and a month of vacation to visit home. How does speaking to your parents 1/2 hr a week show better family values than an American who lives in the same city as his parents and visits them once a month ? How does celebrating Diwali programming Java at work show better values than a native who slices turkey with his loved ones over a thanksgiving dinner ? Again, there are no restraints which tie you to this alien country. We are free to go back anytime, but neverthless we complain and thrive. If you whine about all things unpleasant about this culture and country, and still continue to stay here...isn't that pure hypocrisy ?
Coming back to the title, I intend to go back to India in approximately 8-10 years time. But, I will go back because I love my home, not because I hate this country. I will go back so that I can spend more time with my friends and relatives in India, not because I think people in this country are dumb or hypocrites. I will go back not for my kids future, but for my and my relatives well being. It will be a sad day, when I decide to leave this country, but it would also mark a happy beginning back home. Go back for reasons which attract you to your homeland, not for reasons which repel you from this country, cause if that was the case, you should never have been here in the first place !!
ps: I understand a lot of people will not agree with me on this post. I would appreciate if you could spend a few minutes and enlighten me with your thoughts on the comments sections. Please don't be a passive reader !
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34 comments:
Very well written and TOTALLY echoes my sentiments. Here's my post
on the same issue which I did sometime back in March this year. Yeah and that line up in bold is very true and ppl need to understand it as the very reason why most ppl do want to go back in the first place and not because they hate USA coz I have never believed in dissing ny culture.
I don't have anything against american culture, infact, I have embraced it and actually enjoy it. Nothing wrong with that, but I guess to answer the question in your title, the deciding factor is money. How important is money in your life? You say 8-10 years? How did you decide on that number? I'm not saying money does not have any importance, but I don't want to fall into a trap where I want to work just enough to get that new convertible I always wanted, or that house in that neighborhood that I always wanted. Theres no end to that. Its human and everyone tends to do it. Also, some of the things about Amru culture that you have mentioned are not entirely false either. And, about your cousins being more aware about hindu culture, I would imagine it has less to do with living in America and more to do with upbringing. Regarding whining about American culture, everyone has a right to do it. Nothing is 100% right with any culture, so I say anyone can whine AND live here at the same time. Though, good luck in getting back to India in 10 years. I'll see you there.
will write at length. give me a little time.
@Rohan..yeah I remember reading that post. Like you, I think I have probably had the best 3 years of my life in this country and I am extremely grateful to this country for that.
@Anarkist...The timeframe set by me doesnt have any major monetary considerations. Its more of career related goals. Although u might claim that they are inter-related, I can tell u they r not. Also, I think, living in India, I could have probably saved up equal amount of money that I have saved up after 1 yr of work in US.
Ur right abt my cousins character developing from a good upbrining. I just wanted to show that as a case in point that such thing can certainly be done even in US.
Ur definitely allowed to whine and live in a society. But this post is directed towards all those, who whine and cite that as their only reason to go back home, but continue to live here for monetary reasons and "better" standards of living.
@M...Looking forward to your side of the story
Good one pointy. A great potrayal of plagiarism, hypocrisy, denial and desism. the four founding pillars of your wobbling shadiness :))..hee hee
anyway, i am guessing most of this points have come out after numerous discussions with friends and your own feelings about the topic. Its good that you have given it some form of coherent semblance. It is true that i don't want to raise my kids here because i feel the education system in india is much less spoon feeding and rigorous with a penchant for the essential sciences. However, a lot of people after coming here do diversify into many other aspects. I am sure you agree with me on this. Its less of a culture thing. And, regarding hypocrisy here, it is sometimes very evident. If you take south park as any indication of a edgy parody of whats going on in the states, then look at the episode in which cartman goes back to 1800's. Overall, good post and what did you say about you being desist in this post? its probably the most patriotic thing you have done in your life :p
Hehe....loved the first line of Totti's comment and also the one in your last post. Good going totti!
Extremely valid discussion points. I wish I could make a counter-argument to you, pointy, but that'd be me playing devil's advocate at best, 'cause what you have written is pretty much my thoughts on this topic as well. I know atleast more than a handful of people - came here on F-1/H-1 - that have gone back since. I want to be back in India when I graduate, because that is, who I am, what I believe in and what makes me happy.
@Totti..Barring the first line, I think this probably might have been ur first meaningful comment ever.
The education system in India might be better in churning out Engineers & Doctors...but it prevents brilliant kids from entering other professions. It kills their aptitude even before they realise it. In that way the system in US is better as it encourages kids to do what they like.
@Anarkist...saale Totti ko support kar rahana...the same guys who ra@ed Prachar a month ago in his post...but I must agree, I did like his first line..seems like he put a lot of thought into it..
@Subash...A lot of people nurture dreams of going back home....some are successful, but some just succumb to the land of abundance, despite their numerous complaints about the same.
Good luck with your plans of returning back. We will meet again then :))
@
going back/not i think is a relative concept in the sense that you nt really say for sure tht ud go back or vice-versa.
What if ur wife is an american? is going bck in 8-10 yrs an option then?
Spot on! Even I find it extremely hypocritical if people go to US on their own volition and then talk stuff like, "You are so lucky to live in India" blah blah. 100% agreed NRIs lack family values and culture as opposed Americans like your boss.
Hmm I have a small bone to pick with your last para though. The reasons you mention for coming back to India are all fine, but you didn't mention the reason to wait for 8-10 years to come home. For most of the people, money is what decides this as money is what drives them to US in the first place. And so the more money they save, the earlier you can come back home. So I guess that's why they bitch the US and yet come home just once in 2 years.
Dude, did you hear what Dean Jones said? what say you to that? Aussie? bol saale :)
@Jhantu...Its true u can't fix a precise deadline, but u can always try to plan it..things can happen down the years which might hasten or delay ur move...
@Janani..Money is certainly not on my agenda. I repeat, with my current lifestyle, I could have save up a similar amount of money in India too. My timeframe is more to do with my personal career ambitions and I would like to eke out more benefits of the excellent educational system prevalent in US, before I decide to go back.
@Totti...I have been following the controversy. Its a deplorable act, and it has been dealt accordingly by Ten Sports. I wont be surprised if ICC takes a stern action too. There is no excuse for such slip-ups
Totally agree on Indians born and brought up here. My cousin, speaks better Bengali than me, is well accustomed and does not hate Indian Culture and yet is totally comfortable with the US way of living.
I still remember when I was young, every summer vacation my parents decided on travelling to Calcutta to meet relatives, even if it was for a fortnight.
But, I still preferred living in Bombay for the sole fact, that I identified with people there. It is true, you should live where you feel most comfortable with. I also believe culture for a kid comes from parents and how they choose to raise their kids. If you take your kid away, you are too lazy to teach your kids to determine what is right and wrong and u trust the society to teach them that.
I wouldn't comment on your thoughts because... well they are yours... reg. going back - I have stopped from thinking in terms of time frames... it will be when it will be. I have come to realize that it doesn't make sense to plan so many years ahead of time - reason being.. I was so sure that I was going back to India immediately after my MS.. but it didn't work out.. reason was simple.. wasn't satisfied with money... and all my five year plans were boop.. that said I do agree that it is important that you atleast have a long term strategy as such... well lets see how things turn out..
Reg. american culture.... its very tough to say as to this is what it is... because I came across americans personally who are as conservative as hard core Indians atleast in some respects.. and ofcourse the other spectrum too... However there is indeed is a question of majority and minority in terms of values.. and also popular american culture... and to me personally the difference between urban indian culture if you may say so and the popular american culture is not too different... and whtever difference there is its getting blurred.. so when you move back to India the culture you are mostly probably be exposing yourself and your children to is not too differnt so the argument that I don't like the culture is bull shit.. Its just a personal thing... you want to be close to your family.. and hence you make a choice....
btw.. the previous anonymous was subbu.. forgot to sign my name.. :)
@Kausum....Very good observation abt culture of the kids...its true society plays an important part, but its the upbringing at house which gives it the right direction..
@Subbu...I understand ur situation..and ur right when u say that the urban Indian culture is inching towards the western lifestyle. Having said that, we surely do hold certain family values which are non-existent in US. But thats only a cultural thing...I dont think that makes us superior to them anyways..
Most of what i was planning to say has already been said/ discussed. Nevertheless there are some things I'd like to mention (still). For one, not everyone comes to the US for the lure of money. A lot of them do, may be the majority of the people come here with the hope of a better standard of living, green bucks etc. But I do know people who do come here for education. Trust me, there are people like that. And that I have to admit is unparalleled over here. I agree with you in that primary and secondary education is awesome in India. And I am happy for the foundation I got from my school days. But higher education and the opportunities are mindblowing in the US. You are free to pursue anything you wish, research, publication, presentation....you name it. And I cannot and will not deny the opportunities I have been given here that I would never had got back in India.
We left india at a time when the job market was not good. esp in west Bengal things were pretty bleak. People with masters degree would go from door to door in search of a job. We had bus conductors who had bachelors degree. Yet in the US you can have a high school degree and still have a decent standard of living. and yes, there is something called respect for labor which is sadly missing in India. I mean how many houses have you been to in India where you see the maid, the driver and the other members of the household sitting down together for a cup of coffee? I see it happening here and i think it is beautiful. And I'm glad I could be here and see all of this and learn. Never again can I go back and hire people to do things for me, things that I can and should do myself. And even if I do, the one thing I have learnt well is dignity of labor.
About going back, yes i'd love to. Because it is my country and where i come from. I have a sense of belonging there. I do not live here in the US for the money. I live here because I am married to someone who lives here and cannot find a job in india. Oh yes i know job opportunities are aplenty in India and may be he can find something. after all he's an engineer. But isn't it important for people to pursue their life's calling in something that they enjoy doing? What if you are in a specialized field that has no openings in india and almost zero possibility of anything opening up soon? Do you leave all that and just go back because you want to go back and compromise on your career? Or do you just embrace what you have and learn to adapt?
Trust me, its not just the money. There is something called job satisfaction. And i wouldn't be satisfied with a job in a call center only because it offers me the chance of going back home. I want to make a living out of something I believe in, enjoy doing and believe can make a difference. And I think there are more people who think the way i do. And may be people stay on for various reasons. But each to his own. For every person his/ her reason must be important enough to give up family, friends and familiarity.
You make your own peace.
P.S. liked your answer to janani. like I said everyone has their reasons. somethng that must justify the sacrifices we do. but who knows in 8-10 years you may have a wife, children who will be unwilling to move back with you. what do you do then?
If you are an introvert and your social circle is a point, there should be no problems with settling here as you wouldn't miss a thing. But if a person has friends and relatives who mean to him, then it is best you continue to live in the place you have those roots. And bringing up children is a funny excuse, as I've seen shocking degradation among youth in India itself. As far as motherland stuff, that's all society's efforts to maintain harmony and individual's efforts to align into a group. Nothing more! This may be a bit unpalatable, but hard truth it is.
Going to India is like coming home. It touches something in you, leaves a mark and you forget what it is until you go back. Then in an instant suddenly that part of you comes alive again. Wherever I am and whatever I do, it will be reaching out to me, drawing me back.
John Wright
Just a quote..don't judge anything.Simply read it.
Point5, I have been a silet visitor to your blogs for some time and enjoyed your witty accounts of your various adventures. Anyway, here are some of my ramblings to add to your thoughts.
The thought of going back to India or continuing here for some more time (the x+1 syndrome as succintly described by TTN) haunts many desis. My surmise the genesis of the problem lies in the basic human desire for things far away or unttainable at least in the practical future, which not necessarily is something inherently better. I know many a people whose longing for pizzas and burgers in India almost miraculously transforms into an equally strong craving for idlis and dosas once they arrive here in the states. Similarly the tendency of the NRIs and the settled desis to immerse themselves in pursuit or study of indian art/culture is probably the means of a minority immigrant community to establish an identity. Same goes with the near evangelist supporters of Israel over here (in fact the NRIs seem to hold them as their role models!) to the Jewish cause than possibly the average Isareli.
These aside, I personally believe that a stint abroad should be a rite of passage for everyone to understand one's own country and culture better. An outsider's perspective of the fralities and virtues of the Indian society would be invaluable in further progress. But sadly majority of the peoplle come here driven by the lure of the lucre and are far removed from thinking anything beyond their immediate comforts. The wistful longings of a golden childhood is possibly the only outward manifestation of a subconscious struggle for the search of an identity.
Regarding the proverbial question of when to return, my guess is the more one stays here the more difficult it would be for him/her to go back. Not that things are good here or bad there but more about the work culture and the lifestyle are as fundamentally differnt as the underlying societies themselves. Despite what the hype from here suggests about the booming indian economy the scope for employment remains bleak apart from the IT and the banking sectors. To some extent I feel the economy is evolving we are irrelevent in the indian job market. So one has to be brave to forego a certain lifestyle here and possibly take a significant wage reduction to go back. Still, I see an awfully large number of middle aged people with small kids return back for the various personal reasons already mnetioned by many in the post.
Unfortunately, the tragedy is that most of these returnees, apart from some notable exceptions, are largely preoccupied with recreting their Wisteria lane lifestyle in Bangalore than being a force of agent for betterment of the society at large using their unique outsider's perspective of having observed india in the context of the global changes.
-sambit
@M...U r right that there are definitely more opportunites in this land than in India. Infact there are some fields of research where there is absolutely no scope in India. As I mentioned, I know some people who are really passionate about what they do and feel that their wings might be clipped if they do return to India.
Again, these people form a minority, I think the majority of people working here can most easily find similar challenging work back home. Now that job might not be monetarily satisfying is a whole another situation...thanks for ur nice long comment
@Jinguchakka...Man has always been a social animal and will remain so. If you are outgoing enough, you can have active social life in any place you live. About your observation regarding Motherland....I have never seen someone put that kind of spin on it.
@Totti...I read that too, but I think any coach would write about any country where he has had a successful stint. Irrespective of how bad a place, if you spend a decent amount of time and build some good acquaintances, you will regret leaving it.
@Sambit...Hey nice to hear from you. Excellent comment, u seem to have written a post by urself.
Your observation about how we start appreciating things only when we were distanced from it is very true. I crave for homemade food now, although when I would eat it home everyday, I would like to sneek out at dine at hotels and roadside stalls :))
Your last paragraph is really thought provoking..and it gives an impression that people are not prepared to relenquish the lifestyle they enjoyed over here and hence get busy trying to simulate one at home.
I think there is a bigger point than to just worry about whether you are going back to India or not.. See, there is one thing, of all, that provides you the identity in the sea of people. India. We take advantage of the high school system, IITs or whatever.. derive the moral values etc. What is it that we are giving back to the country that has given us so very very much? Everyone is talking about their personal choices and comforts and career goals and how moving back to India would not alter any of those or deprive them of success in their respective fields. Do we all not have an obligation to our Mother? If one feels that moving back home and pursuing whatever it is they wanna do, is going to help the nation even in the most miniscule way, do it. If you think you can help the nation by staying here in U.S., then so be it. The underlying point is, stop worrying about yourself, your family, your career and your goals, and try to help out the country that has given you so much more than you will ever be able to give back. And she doesn't even expect anything in return!!
@Subash....I firmly believe that giving back to India, doesnt need you being in India. Infact from my experience, I see people contribute much effectively from over here, be it plain charity or economic developement through foreign investments. But humans are selfish by nature and charity always begins at home.
Maybe a person wanted to stay in india to begin with.....but then got burned by the callous nature of the whole Indian socio-economic-political-bureaucratic quagmire??
Money is but a small part of the whole issue.....the real question is, is home where the heart is, or is home where you feel comfortable making one? (a HOME mind you....quite different from a HOUSE and all things material...)
There are various echoes on the theme that India did a lot for all who ultimately ended up here to make a life for themselves.....what about the USA? Did this country not do, and still does, more than any other country in the world would do for a person with even average abilities? A good education, freedom to opine, systems and processes that actually work, the OPPORTUNITIES to prosper as a human being, limited only by one's potential? Being here is a privilige, not a right, which most people forget conviniently when deciding what India sacrificed versus this or that...
I think Indians still try to impose their world view regarding "Indian-ness" on every other desi they chance upon....and frankly, it just sucks most times...
-- R.S.
@R.S.. Excellent observation regarding double standards while judging a country's contribution. If its India, we say, our motherland has sacrficed so much for us and we deserve to give it back...meanwhile when it comes to US, they would say that this country is only exploiting my brain and employing me cos they could not find someone suitable locally..
however, I do not completely agree that Money is a small part...most ppl aim for a monetary goal, maybe after that money is immaterial...
I am from Hyderabad. The hyderabad I grew up was beautiful and clean with a lot less pollution and traffic. AS a child I used to catch butterfly's, dragon flies, used to see wood peckers and all kinds of birs and such. Today even the crows are dying I was told..
I struggled a lot when I was a student bcoz of reservation in India.. Reservation based on caste still exists in India.. India will not change until the people's mentality change and people can NEVER change in india. They believe in all kinds of bullshit and are very othodox with too many fucking blind beliefs. You can find it in even the most educated...my own friends for example... Yes such people should go back coz they are unfit to live anywhere outside India.
I would never want my kids to grow in india and face the struggles I went through. Life is too cmfortable here in the USA. Of course every country has its own share of problems...BUT US has given me opportunites which I would have never got in India.. I would never go back. Most americans are honest and straight forward people. There are too many corrupt, greedy, heartless people in India with no conscience..
I am happy with my life in the USA. I thank this great country for allowing me to come here and work and have a good life.. I dont want to run mine and my kids future by going back to India..
plzz guys, give me a break! everybody who visits USA, say they will go back to India soon, 3 years, 5 years or 8-10 years. Why do you guys commit yourself to go back in the first place? Going back to India is the greatest thing to happen in one's life. Everybody knows that USA is the land of opportunities and most importantly MONEY. Money makes a man selfish. After coming to USA, life gets better and better everyday. No problems with basic amenities like Water, Power, Traffic, Pollution, etc. which is a big problem back in India. But, you can find places with good facilities in India too. It just requires some time to find out. Somebody said, it's hard to change the system in India. If everybody is selfish like us(who are living in USA and enjoying the weather out here), then who will take the necessary action to change India? Anyway, it's just requires some commitment and understanding with your wife/spouse to go back to India and settle down and believe me IT HAPPENS BEFORE YOU PLAN TO BACK TO INDIA.
I hate INDIANS who complain about traffic and how hot it is in the summer here in the USA. After growing up in India, how can you complain about traffic in the USA and the how hot it gets in the summer in the USA. Its all crap. Indians living here in the USA are becoming artifcial like the americans. Many people complain about traffic, pollution and corruption in India. Well my dear friends... america is not heaven either.. look at the medical system with its insurance problems, racism at work.. and so on just to name a few. Life is too complicated and very stressful here in the USA. There is way too much stress here in the USA. There is no way even the most successful Indian will be treated like an american here.... Ok man Life in India can be better than the USA provided you have the confidence that you can make it big over there. There are lot of opportunities in india. After working all my life here, I dont want to die here. Surely I will go back to india. I want my kids to enojoy with cousins and relatives in India instead of having a pet like a dog or a cat. Man is a social animal. He needs people around him to be happy.
Hi there.. I am returning to India tommorow and that when I searched for some people who think like me on google saying " going back to India " .. I was here for 3 yrs.. Did my MS , worked for the best telecom service providers , had a very very good salary and I love the life in USA. I agree to everything you are saying about not cribbing abt USA or India. Going back is my decision and I love my country and family . I will always have great memories of the USA and such a great time I had here ..But for me, its just one more country I visited. Wish me luck and all the best to you too.
I like your honest thoughts and opinions. My only point here is if people set a year instead of a time frame...i.e say 2013 instead of 5 years, it tends to stick better. The time frame, for some weird reason, seems to linger as the same number year after year.
A nice one...and I do agree that u can't plan everything in life..like time 2 go back.....well I guess we need to read these kinds of blogs even before we come to this part of the world..if possible.
All good points...but I guess after speding so much time reading the blog and comments, I realized what's the point of this discussion..it is what it is...right? I felt i just wasted my 10 mins.
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